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谢谢楼上回复。如果我和房客签一个单独合同,就是如果因为房客没扫雪,造成的injury, 由房客承担责任。房客签了,我还有责任吗?xiexie

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛
While the landlord is responsible for the snow removal of their own rental units, there are many agreements out there that state that it's actually the tenant's obligation. This isn't actually legal unless it is done through a separate contract, as laid out by the infamous Montgomery v. Van case and determined by the Ontario Court of Appeal.

This case discussed the issues of the snow shoveling obligation in 2009 after a tenant slipped walking towards the stairs to her basement apartment. She said that the lease stated, "tenants are responsible for keeping their walkway and stairway clean (including snow removal)." and she sued for her injuries. The landlord stated "the tenant’s injury was due to her own negligence because she had failed to keep her walkway in a good state of repair, including free from snow and ice.”

This is when the court ruled that it was possible to pass the responsibility but that it can only be done through a separate contract or a severable clause. This contract should include an agreement as to when snow removal should be performed (12-24 hours after a snowfall, for example), how they should remove the snow (like where it's safe to be moved and what to use as a de-icer), if they'll be provided with a shovel or other equipment themselves and if there is a reduction in rent as a form of compensation for their removal services.

When it comes to creating a separate contract from a lease agreement, it's best to consult with a lawyer for expert advice. Even if there is a separate contract created and the tenant slips and falls on ice and gets injured, they could still have a claim against you in court.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下家园 / 房东 / 出租房,签了合同租客扫雪,但是租客没扫,把行人摔了。谁的责任?谢谢 +2
    • 我理解是房主的责任 +4
    • 房东 +5
    • 保险公司? +1
    • 谢谢楼上回复。如果我和房客签一个单独合同,就是如果因为房客没扫雪,造成的injury, 由房客承担责任。房客签了,我还有责任吗?xiexie +1
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛
      While the landlord is responsible for the snow removal of their own rental units, there are many agreements out there that state that it's actually the tenant's obligation. This isn't actually legal unless it is done through a separate contract, as laid out by the infamous Montgomery v. Van case and determined by the Ontario Court of Appeal.

      This case discussed the issues of the snow shoveling obligation in 2009 after a tenant slipped walking towards the stairs to her basement apartment. She said that the lease stated, "tenants are responsible for keeping their walkway and stairway clean (including snow removal)." and she sued for her injuries. The landlord stated "the tenant’s injury was due to her own negligence because she had failed to keep her walkway in a good state of repair, including free from snow and ice.”

      This is when the court ruled that it was possible to pass the responsibility but that it can only be done through a separate contract or a severable clause. This contract should include an agreement as to when snow removal should be performed (12-24 hours after a snowfall, for example), how they should remove the snow (like where it's safe to be moved and what to use as a de-icer), if they'll be provided with a shovel or other equipment themselves and if there is a reduction in rent as a form of compensation for their removal services.

      When it comes to creating a separate contract from a lease agreement, it's best to consult with a lawyer for expert advice. Even if there is a separate contract created and the tenant slips and falls on ice and gets injured, they could still have a claim against you in court.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • 我个人理解是这样的。这个责任免除协议是房东和房客之间的 如果有人摔倒 人家先找房东索赔 房东再去找房客索赔(前提是他搬家以后你还能找到他人) +3
        • 多谢!!
      • 没什么用,法庭不会认
        • 嗯。谢谢!
      • 行人第一时间会找房主负责,房主可以找保险公司,或拿着合同找租客负责。但实际情况是租人房子的一般没什么钱,你找租客找了也白找。那一纸合同,管君子管不了小人。
        • 谢谢
    • 房东
    • “Tenants Do Not Have To Shovel Snow! (Even if you have a separate agreement to do so)
      • 赞老猫认真 +1
        • 有问题我第一反应是放狗
      • 外包给铲雪公司
      • 很多房东在合同里会写付给租客一定的报酬来铲雪。如果你购买了服务,那契约关系就成立了。
        • 这个不能写在lease里面,会有麻烦,需要单独扫雪合同
          • 是单独合同,标准租约里没有这一条,写在OREA form400里。
            • 感谢。请问我在哪里可以找到这种单独合同的范本?多谢!
              • 你如果是通过MLS租就用OREA的form,如果自己租,随便写一个就行了,比如租客负责扫雪剪草,你每年付给他100作为雇佣他的酬劳。
                • 非常感谢!
      • 谢谢
    • 行人索赔了?
      • 没有,就是以防万一
    • 我把扫雪外包了不需要租客扫,但我怕租客摔倒找我麻烦,跟租客签了额外协议,我把扫雪外包给租客。如果租客摔着了,找我赔,我再找给我扫雪的人也就是租客赔,两个互相抵消。但是行人的话,数额小就自己赔了,数额大就走保险,然后找租客赔,至于能不能赔看法庭怎么说了 +1
      • 请问有没有这种额外协议的范本?我想做一份给租客签。谢谢
        • 就找一个扫雪公司给你的协议,把名字换了?我也是瞎说个人建议哈,还是咨询专业的靠谱
          • 谢谢
    • 法律程序是找房主,房客同时列为被告,房主可以在判决后起诉房客。
      • 谢谢
    • 一旦发生了,凡是能赖上的都赖:房客,房东,保险公司,统统是被告。你们自己上法庭去摘去。行人是无辜的第三方,你必须负责。你的房客先赔,赔光了你顶上。 +1
    • 法律好像是保护house owner,只要24小时内扫一下就行,city管理那么多人行道都不怕,
      • 法律只保护受害者。
        • 如果这样谁都可以去别人家门口摔一下去讹诈,
          • 朋友圈里有2个曾因交通事故索赔的。哭啊。保险公司抠死了。但是你作为房东要是被人缠上那没准是块肥肉。
            • 所以不能指望租客扫雪,除非特勤快的。首先保险买至少二百万,然后外包信誉好的扫雪公司,保证给你扫的那种。做了这两个以后,就跟你自己房子没啥区别,自己房子也可能有行人摔倒
              • 谢谢! 我查一下保险 +1
        • 我记得我查过,好像是过去50年安省在别人家道摔倒索赔成功的很少很少,这个场景法律是故意在保护房东,否则没法活了,人人都去别人property 摔一下
          • 区别在于房东是否尽到自己的责任。扫雪了,撒盐了,还是有人滑倒,那是意外,保险公司赔。没扫,或者没扫干净,那是失职,保险公司可以拒赔,因为那已经不属于意外了。所以其实很简单,就是要尽职。
            • 没扫干净就很难定义了!而且如果雪连续下如何呢?扫了又有!如果你去休假了,怎麽办?个人觉得不可能索赔成功的。
            • 扫雪了,撒盐了,还是有人滑倒,保险公司不会赔的,这个和正常走路摔倒有什么区别?
    • 出租房不要买带人行道的,不操那份心,除非人行道市政打扫。如果没有人行道,行人摔车道上了,那也不是那么好要钱的,没请你你来我家干嘛
      • 还是很好要钱。行人在住家地面上摔倒了,肯定还是房东负责任。
        • 你是说去别人家私人的前院或者车道上去摔一下,然后再去告房东?应该是房东先去告那人私闯私人驻地吧?小偷进了人家的房子偷东西,还没偷到却被一把大火给烧死在别人的房子里了,小偷的家人还可以拿一大笔索赔?
          • 虽然超出常识,但西方法律系统就是这么玩的,有不少案例的。
          • 还真是这样,你这个例子小偷的家人还真可以拿一大笔索赔。
      • 房客如果自己不扫雪,出门的时候摔倒了,可以向房东索赔么?如果可以,那有没有人行道都区别不大。
        • 反正我就是实际上把扫雪外包给公司了,雪扫干净减少风险。纸面上又把扫雪外包给租客了。租客跟房东索赔,房东再跟租客索赔,互相抵消
          • 聪明
      • 你家有人来的。有邮差,快递小哥,查煤气电表的,或其它亲朋邻居或任何有正当理由踏入你家地界的来访者。他们都可能摔倒,都可能告你。
        • 这些人才不会,都有工作保险, +1
    • 没有行人道的房子其实在多伦多是条大优点~
    • 谢谢大家回复。受益匪浅。我打算这样做:每个租客签一个单独的扫雪合同,在考虑要不要给一百块钱。另外我会跟出租房邻居聊下天,留我电话,如果不扫雪通知我,我去处理。还有房屋责任险200万

      我又查了一下,房屋责任险一百万,我需要加吗?
      • 是否加码得看具体情况
    • 借问一下,扫雪剪草, 如果请公司做的话,大约多少钱每月?
    • 房东合同雇佣房客扫雪,并不能免除房东事故责任。包给谁都不会责任转嫁。除非同意的条款中写清事故责任。但这可能导致不公平而无效。认真的就找律师吧。
      • 有道理